[Supras] First gear

Wed Jan 2 12:24:37 CST 2008

Research would be going to race events..asking what people use, and
WHY compounds X Y Z works well for them.

For some its tip-in response, others its linearality (is that a
word?), others its overall bad-ass-ness.

Not sure what youre doing..but if its a constant string of 100-0
stops..you've got the right hardware.   ;)

Probably 90% of the people that end up in my in box have been bitten
by the case of "everyone else uses X, so I did, and they dont work
well...".  Whether that's because of old rules in a class that USED to
manadate a specific pad but dont anymore, or just internet-speak on
some non-racer forum talking about, racing.  Or just plain old street
drivers on fancy-pands pads they saw in a full color ad not capable of
decent friction over 500d.

And as for dual huge BBK..nothing wrong with that at all.  But you'll
find in racing you _cant do that_ generally, and braking habits and
technique come into play a lot more than throwing size at the problem.
 There is always a tradeoff, and yours was ultimately cost.  Most
street people wont go into this with cost not being a factor.
Autox'ers and racers have a classing issues.

There are a LOT of underbraked cars in racing, my god.  A 1st gen RX7
if driven USING the brakes will shatter the rotor in half from the
edge all the way to the bearing shells..so certain 'adjustments' need
made, which include loosening up the car a lot..to the point you can
shake the rear end sideways 1/4" within the suspension bushings.  THEN
you have a fast car..

Most cars are like that..braking is just going slower.

I'll bet a MK3 can finish a 25hr road race on OEM hardware with pad
adjustments only..and on one set of pads..and not driving slow either.

I'll also bet that OEM hardware on the right pads used the right way
(Habits enter in here) can support a 100mi a day journey through
difficult high speed mountain roads driven like a banshee and still
get 30-40k out of a set of pads without wearing out any of the
hardware.

Thats an extreme example..but..I still agree with what YOU want
requires a lot of bling...and bling isnt a bad thing, just you cant
race bling with any reasonable understanding that you'll win anything.

98% of racing is done on what the OEM hardware is, only the
fantastically wealthy racers can change any of that hardware out.

On Jan 2, 2008 10:02 AM,  <cthommes at adelphia.net> wrote:
> So, what is it you qualify as "real research"?
> I've *personally* been through about 12 different brake setups of various scopes on a mk3 over the past 10 years, starting from stock, to different pad/rotor upgrades, to mk4 TT fronts, to a JK kit with MK4 rears, and now 14" BBK's front and rear, none of them being acceptable IMO until the latter.  And yes, aesthetics are a not-insignificant factor... 18" wheels over 11" brakes?  No thanks.
>
> I guess everyone has their own perspective.  As much as you berate the Lexus/550 "hack", it too gets people 90% of what people want as opposed to other more costly approaches...
>
> -Craig
>
>
> ---- Speedtoys <speedtoys.racing at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You can do 90% of what people want from a BBK with _just pads_ .
> > People need to stop trusting the flashy adds in the back of magazines
> > like Turbo and do some real research.
> >
> >
> > Got brakes?
> > ======
> > 25hrs or one season with one pad set is possible.  Save money and pit
> > time, compromise nothing.  Ask how.
> > TXT or Tone: 8414546712 at txt.att.net
> > http://www.speedtoys.com
> >
> >
> > On Dec 31, 2007, at 4:30 PM, <cthommes at adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, but an improvement over absolute crap then only becomes less
> > > crap.
> > >
> > > Trust me, you won't know a *real* difference unless you get some
> > > *real* brakes.
> > >
> > > -Craig
> > >
> > > ---- sprigmo1 <sprigmo1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> Gotta agree with Jeff about the pads!!  I have a set
> > >> of EBC reds installedon my 92.  Got them from a buddy
> > >> of mine that decided on Portefields instead.  Imagine
> > >> That?!?!? LOL
> > >> The EBC pads were nite and day compared to the
> > >> MetalMasters I had on. Big improvement! And that was
> > >> at 380rwhp.  I drove my buddies car with his
> > >> porterfields and all I can say is, before I put my car
> > >> back on the road after this rebuild I will own a set
> > >> front and rear.
> > >> Malik
> > >> --- Jeff Mohler <speedtoys.racing at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Ah..but you -can- do a lot with just pads..trust me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Theres zero magic in rotors, its all pads.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Dec 31, 2007 12:24 PM,  <cthommes at adelphia.net>
> > >>> wrote:
>
> > >>>> LOL!  What brakes did you go with?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Everyone forgets how horrible the brakes are on
> > >>> these cars, regardless of fancypants
> > >>> supermetaleramic pads or cross-drilled
> > >>> this-n-that...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Craig
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ---- t72pwrd <nholden1 at woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> I ran a -60 upgraded CT for a short period of
> > >>> time before other issues
> > >>>>> forced me to part the whole car.  That SOB was a
> > >>> ton of fun, issues were
> > >>>>> very similar to what Bernie is describing.
> > >>> Didn't put many miles on it, but
> > >>>>> bang for the buck it was a well spent $450.
> > >>> Can't comment on longevity, but
> > >>>>> at that time it made more sense than multiple
> > >>> thousands on a single upgrade.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Like Bernie has said, the car really comes to
> > >>> life over 3K.  It's really not
> > >>>>> a bad option to get to 400, again longevity
> > >>> might be an issue, but it is a
> > >>>>> very cost effective path.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I went this path and regretted it, but not all
> > >>> will.  It IS a deadend path
> > >>>>> but it should get you 400 at the wheels.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I just spent more on brakes than most of our
> > >>> cars' are worth.  I'm not
> > >>>>> trying to boast, just want to make it clear that
> > >>> I have a different goal and
> > >>>>> chose a different path.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This path has resulted in an immobile car for 5
> > >>> years and lots of
> > >>>>> frustration.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Just think about your goals before you decide
> > >>> how to get there.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: "Jeff Mohler" <speedtoys.racing at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> To: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
> > >>>>> Cc: <Supras at supras.com>; "Walker,Brian (Rich.
> > >>> Dist)"
> > >>>>> <Brian.Walker2 at vdot.virginia.gov>
> > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:11 PM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Supras] First gear
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The 3K bump is typical for the CT26 housing.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Im waiting for the "broke da turbo"
> > >>> post..youre asking a lot at 20 psi
> > >>>>>> on that thing (manifold boost + loss).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Dec 29, 2007 6:07 PM,
> > >>> berniek at technicaldevelop.com
> > >>>>>> <berniek at technicaldevelop.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Jim:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>    I don't have any idea how much power the
> > >>> engine is making.  I'll get
> > >>>>>>> it dynoed after 750-1000 miles.  Not clipping
> > >>> the turbine but opening up
> > >>>>>>> the wastegate port instead may be responsible
> > >>> for the explosive onset of
> > >>>>>>> torque at 3000 RPM.  But it sometimes will
> > >>> start to do the same in
> > >>>>>>> second, although it is just a little tire
> > >>> hopping at about 4500-5000
> > >>>>>>> RPM.  Suspension is stock.  This car will be
> > >>> an INFREQUENT daily driver,
> > >>>>>>> so with the exception of brakes from Jeff in
> > >>> the summer, the suspension,
> > >>>>>>> etc. will stay pretty much as is.  I did
> > >>> scare myself a couple of
> > >>>>>>> times.  The GTO was gone 37 years ago.  The
> > >>> Firebird with the BB Chevy
> > >>>>>>> has been in wait of exterior restoration for
> > >>> 10 years (including a
> > >>>>>>> carburetor rebuild.  Holleys have vertical
> > >>> cork gaskets that shrink like
> > >>>>>>> magic.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>    Bernie
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Supras mailing list
> > >>>>>>> Supras at supras.com
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Supras mailing list
> > >>>>>> Supras at supras.com
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Supras mailing list
> > >>>>> Supras at supras.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>> Supras at supras.com
> > >>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Malik
> > >>  It Ain't Eazy Being Me!!!!
> > >>  92Trbo Supra 367whp
> > >>  92 Supra Turbo Targa,
> > >> Blitz peek hold device, Apexi Super AFC, Apexi AVC-R, HKS
> > >>  Timing Gears,, K&N FIPKE, catch can modification,
> > >>   Apexi N1 Exhaust, Random Technology High flow
> > >>  CAT,  AEM UEGO Wideband 02 Unit, CSF
> > >>  Aluminum 52mm Race radiator, Walbro
> > >>  Racing Fuel Pump, Aeromotive AFPR,
> > >>  Horsepower Freaks 700hp custom Supra
> > >>  intercooler and hardpipes,  Greddy bov, HKS
> > >>  3000Pipe
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > >> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
>
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> > >> Supras at supras.com
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> > >
>
>