[Supras] Help me locate an exhaust leak
t72pwrd
nholden1 at woh.rr.com
Thu Apr 24 17:12:10 CDT 2008
FelPro and stock are identical. The FelPro is even MADE in Japan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <bob at hairballcreations.com>
To: <studioartist at yahoo.com>; <supras at supras.com>; "'Khalid Almufti'"
<kalmufti at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Supras] Help me locate an exhaust leak
> Fel Pro makes a pretty good gasket but given the cost difference I too
> would
> err on the side of caution and use oem
>
> Have you looked into having the manifold checked for straightness and
> maybe
> machined?
>
> I can't think it would cost much and there should be plenty of metal left
> to
> straiten the manifold
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: supras-bounces at supras.com [mailto:supras-bounces at supras.com] On
> Behalf
> Of LN
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:03 PM
> To: supras at supras.com; Khalid Almufti
> Subject: Re: [Supras] Help me locate an exhaust leak
>
>
>
> Hi Khalid,
>
> I undo this last bolt and it came out fine with no stripping. However the
> nut was frozen onto the stud and came out as a whole assembly when I was
> backing it out. Havent't had a chance to check the others studs/bolts yet
> as I don't have much time to work on it just yet. I did however tried to
> snug them up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn without a torque wrench but just by
> feel
> so that gve me hope that the threads are still intact
>
>
> Also I bought a Felpro gasket but afterward got to thinking if using an
> aftermaket instead of OEM would it mess up in getting the true torque
> spec
> of 29feet-lb and thus cause the stripping of the threads. I wonder if
> this
>
> might be the cause of people that have had stripped thread since I found
> an
> article that mention gasket material and construction dictates the torque
> spec. Here is the link for it http://www.boltscience.com/pages/gasket.htm
> .
> Due to shortage of time I am dreading the prospect of helicoiling and just
> know that I would be running into a lot of time wasted in removing the 3
> bottom bolts connecting from exhaust manifold to downpipe in order to get
> access. And that doesn't include drilling/tapping/helicoiling time . Was
> told by the Autozone guy that I can avoid removing these 3 bolts since the
> manifold swings out 2-3" to allow me enough clearance to slip in the new
> gasket assuming that I don't have any stripped threads. Do you have any
> tips or tricks in removing the 3 bolts?
>
> In any case I also purchase OEM Toyota gasket and they are built in 5
> layers
>
> : perforated steel layer-composite abestos layer (guessing on the
> abestos)-smooth steel layer-composite layer again-smooth steel. All held
> together by rivets. The Felpro is built in 3 layers , a composite layer
> sandwiched by a layer of perforated steel on each side.
>
> I couldn't find any RTV that can handle the high heat since I am a bit
> concern that perhaps the leakage is due to warpage in the back area either
> from the head or the manifold mating side and was hoping that the RTV
> sealant might address these minor imperfections and allow for a quick
> cheap
> fix till I have time to do a proper job. I am awared of warpage allowance
> of .10mm max on the head side and .75mm on the manifold side and the
> proper
>
> way is to machine them down. But I also wonder how often does warpage
> happens. The flow of the leak just like a knife cutting action which lead
> me to believe that it's warpage.
>
> What gasket manufacture did you use and did you use any RTV? Would love
> to
> hear from others also on this question.
>
> I know I am asking lots of questions but I truly appreciate your help and
> everyone else on the list that have responded. I also know now that this
> is
>
> the cause of lean reading on my emission report.
>
> --- On Sun, 4/20/08, supras-request at supras.com <supras-request at supras.com>
> wrote:
>
>> From: supras-request at supras.com <supras-request at supras.com>
>> Subject: Supras Digest, Vol 52, Issue 26
>> To: supras at supras.com
>> Date: Sunday, April 20, 2008, 10:00 AM
>> Send Supras mailing list submissions to
>> supras at supras.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
>> 'help' to
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Supras
>> digest..."Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Lapping plate for rent? (Sevan D)
>> 2. Toyota Quality (Bob)
>> 3. Re: Help me pass the smog test please (supraman88)
>> 4. 88 NA AT Speedo Cable (supraman88)
>> 5. Re: Toyota Quality (supraman88)
>> 6. Re: Help me pass the smog test please
>> (Bigmacz28 at aol.com)
>> 7. Re: 88 NA AT Speedo Cable (Bigmacz28 at aol.com)
>> 8. Re: How do I locate an exhaust leak? (Khalid Almufti)
>> 9. Re: Toyota Quality (Chad Fernandez)As Mohler said,
>> these days Cometic has made the use of MLS gaskets pretty
>> common, and if you ask the machine shop if they have
>> experience with surfacing blocks or heads for use with them
>> you should be ok.I just wanted the list to know... Toyota
>> quality isn't what it used to be.
>>
>> After 19 years one of the original headlights failed!
>>
>> I can't believe with all of our technology we can't
>> make a simple headlight
>> last 20 years yet. If their quality keeps falling I might
>> have to start
>> looking at a Lexus
>>
>> How much you want to bet the other one will fail within the
>> next 6 months?
>>
>> BobWhen was the last time you replaced plugs and wires?
>> Mine was failing
>> miserably until I did a 'tune up'.
>>
>> Set the timing according to spec, and do the plugs and
>> wires. I got NGK
>> wires (what the factory uses) for $56 on eBay a year ago,
>> and
>> Nippon-Denso plugs. Everything came into spec, but NOx is
>> high.
>> Retarding the timing would help that.
>>
>> The reason the timing was showing at 8 degrees is because
>> of the vacuum
>> advance controlled by the ECU. If you short terminals T and
>> E1 in the
>> diagnostic terminal under the hood and check it, it should
>> be 10
>> degrees. Remove the jumper and it will go to 8.
>>
>> >
>> > I failed my smog test and need help. Any advices
>> > would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > Here are my test results for California ASM Test:
>> >
>> > Car is an 86.5 Supra Non-Turbo 3.0 Liter
>> >
>> >
>> > %CO %O2 HC IN PPM........... CO IN %.............
> NO
>> > IN PPM...........
>> > TEST RPM MEAS MEAS MAX AVE MEAS MAX AVE
> MEAS MAX AVE
>> > MEAS RESULTS
>> > 15mph 1646 12.0 3.2 130 41 189 0.81 0.13
> 0.51 1115 399
>> > 1505 Fail
>> > 25mph 1786 12.6 2.7 105 29 105 0.61 0.11
> 0.25 945 332
>> > 479 Pass
>> > Ignition Timing 8 BTDC on the smog report.
>> > MAX=Maximum allowable value
>> > AVE=Average emissions for passing vehicles
>> > MEAS=Amount measured
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > When I asked the smog technician if my timing is off
>> > he said that I shouldn't expect 10 BTDC since it
>> > changes according to
>> > engine to different conditions. Is he right? I
>> > thought it's supposed to be 10 BTDC at idle
>> according
>> > to the factory specification in the TSRM manual. Who
>> > is right? I looked thru all my older previous smog
>> > reports and I saw that it jumped all around from 9
>> > BTDC, 13 BTDC, and 10 BTDC but they all passed the
>> > smog tests till now. So does the timing has any major
>> > effect?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Liam N
>> >I read the dissertation at SOGI on how to remove the
>> short section from
>> the transmission with vise grips. I had already tried this
>> myself before
>> reading the tip. No Go, the thing won't come off, and
>> when I get the
>> Vise Grips on there, I can't even turn it, it's so
>> tight. Anybody have
>> any suggestions (other than taking it to a shop)?
>>
>> I'm hoping once I get the thing off I can somehow
>> repair the broken
>> piece, using JB Weld or something similar.
>>
>> Any suggestions (except for the shop and unassing $80 for
>> new part) are
>> welcome!Be glad you don't own a Tacoma...
>>
>> Or, maybe you should wish you owned one! I sold one to a
>> friend of mine
>> 3 years ago for $8,500, and if Toyota buys it back,
>> it'll be $11,850.
>> Not bad!
>>
>> And has anyone noticed, it seems to be only the models made
>> in the US
>> that are having 'issues'?
>>
>>
>> Bob wrote:
>> > I just wanted the list to know... Toyota quality
>> isn't what it used to be.
>> >
>> > After 19 years one of the original headlights failed!
>> >
>> > I can't believe with all of our technology we
>> can't make a simple headlight
>> > last 20 years yet. If their quality keeps falling I
>> might have to start
>> > looking at a Lexus
>> >
>> > How much you want to bet the other one will fail
>> within the next 6 months?
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Supras mailing list
>> > Supras at supras.com
>> > http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>> >
>> >Also make sure you have a new air filter!
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/20/2008 7:32:10 A.M. US Mountain
>> Standard Time,
>> supraman88 at verizon.net writes:
>>
>> When was the last time you replaced plugs and wires? Mine
>> was failing
>> miserably until I did a 'tune up'.
>>
>> Set the timing according to spec, and do the plugs and
>> wires. I got NGK
>> wires (what the factory uses) for $56 on eBay a year ago,
>> and
>> Nippon-Denso plugs. Everything came into spec, but NOx is
>> high.
>> Retarding the timing would help that.
>>
>> The reason the timing was showing at 8 degrees is because
>> of the vacuum
>> advance controlled by the ECU. If you short terminals T
>> and E1 in the
>> diagnostic terminal under the hood and check it, it should
>> be 10
>> degrees. Remove the jumper and it will go to 8.
>>
>> >
>> > I failed my smog test and need help. Any advices
>> > would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > Here are my test results for California ASM Test:
>> >
>> > Car is an 86.5 Supra Non-Turbo 3.0 Liter
>> >
>> >
>> > %CO %O2 HC IN PPM........... CO IN
>> %............. NO
>> > IN PPM...........
>> > TEST RPM MEAS MEAS MAX AVE MEAS
>> MAX AVE MEAS
>> MAX AVE
>> > MEAS RESULTS
>> > 15mph 1646 12.0 3.2 130 41 189
>> 0.81 0.13 0.51
>> 1115 399
>> > 1505 Fail
>> > 25mph 1786 12.6 2.7 105 29 105
>> 0.61 0.11 0.25
>> 945 332
>> > 479 Pass
>> > Ignition Timing 8 BTDC on the smog report.
>> > MAX=Maximum allowable value
>> > AVE=Average emissions for passing vehicles
>> > MEAS=Amount measured
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > When I asked the smog technician if my timing is off
>> > he said that I shouldn't expect 10 BTDC since it
>> > changes according to
>> > engine to different conditions. Is he right? I
>> > thought it's supposed to be 10 BTDC at idle
>> according
>> > to the factory specification in the TSRM manual. Who
>> > is right? I looked thru all my older previous smog
>> > reports and I saw that it jumped all around from 9
>> > BTDC, 13 BTDC, and 10 BTDC but they all passed the
>> > smog tests till now. So does the timing has any
>> major
>> > effect?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Liam N
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Supras mailing list
>> Supras at supras.com
>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site
>> for U.S. used car
>> listings at AOL Autos.
>> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)Heat
>> it up with a hair dryer and use channel locks. They are
>> smaller and
>> worked for me. I might have a used short cable. Will look
>> around.
>>
>> Joe Mac
>> Tucson,Az
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/20/2008 7:48:58 A.M. US Mountain
>> Standard Time,
>> supraman88 at verizon.net writes:
>>
>> I read the dissertation at SOGI on how to remove the short
>> section from
>> the transmission with vise grips. I had already tried this
>> myself before
>> reading the tip. No Go, the thing won't come off, and
>> when I get the
>> Vise Grips on there, I can't even turn it, it's so
>> tight. Anybody have
>> any suggestions (other than taking it to a shop)?
>>
>> I'm hoping once I get the thing off I can somehow
>> repair the broken
>> piece, using JB Weld or something similar.
>>
>> Any suggestions (except for the shop and unassing $80 for
>> new part) are
>> welcome!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Supras mailing list
>> Supras at supras.com
>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site
>> for U.S. used car
>> listings at AOL Autos.
>> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)Hi!
>> I am really glad that you were able to locate the
>> exhaust leak.
>>
>> In my opinion, the first thing to try is simply to retorque
>> the manifold, starting with the rear most nut.
>> Do this on a cold engine, and torque according to spec.,
>> i.e 29 ft-lb.
>> If you can't torque the nuts because the studs are
>> spinning in the cylinder head, then you'll have to
>> rethread and helicoil the cylinder head for the manifold
>> studs. I am not aware of any write ups on this procedure,
>> but it's relatively easy, especially if you've
>> drilled and tapped threads before. Unfortunately, you have
>> to remove the exhaust manifold in order to do this job. So,
>> here is the procedure that I have done on my car:
>>
>> 1- Remove the exhasut manifold. I removed turbo charger
>> first, though I think you can remove the manifold without
>> removing the charger. Of course, turbo charger coolant and
>> oil lines have to be disconnected from the engine.
>> 2- Remove the studs where the threads in the cylinder head
>> have stripped. They usually will just pull right off, but
>> if you decide to do all the studs, as recommended by the
>> majority of the group, you can remove the remaining studs
>> as well.
>>
>> 3- Get a close quarter right angle drill. I used this
>> drill
>>
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Milwaukee%200370-20%203%2F8%20in.%20Close%20Quar
> ter%20Drill:2003368642
>>
>> I do not recommed a right angle adapter as I have tried
>> this option and it did not work well for me. You really
>> don't want to drill a larger diameter than what is
>> needed for the helicoil!
>>
>> 4- Get a thread repair Helicoil kit. Here is the part
>> number for the Emhart kit I used: 5543-10. This is a
>> complete thread repair kit, minus the drill bit, which is
>> 13/32 inch drill bit. But I guess if you pick up any other
>> brand M10x1.25 thread repair kit will work. Follow the
>> instructions of the thread repair kit.
>>
>> 5- The first step will be to drill out the stripped
>> threads. Be careful here, don't drill too deep into
>> the cylinder head, and since it's aluminum, you can
>> easily do that. Check the depth, mark the drill bet with
>> the length of the threads of the studs, and you can also
>> place tape on the mark to stop drilling when you reach the
>> correct depth. This is why I like the drill I mentioned
>> earlier, it gives proper control needed for this job.
>>
>> 6- Follow the insturction on the rethread kit to tap the
>> threads for the helicoil. I used a ratchet, especially for
>> the tight spot near the firewall.
>>
>> 7- Now use the tool provided with the kit to thread on the
>> helicoil. Work carefully and slowly on this one.
>>
>> 9- Now you should be able to hand tighten the studs (use
>> new one if the old ones look bad) on the cylinder head.
>> Some people use high temp loctite, I didn't and
>> don't have recommendation against or for it.
>>
>> 10- Install a new exhaust manifold gasket. Note, it
>> should only go on one way, there is a notch, which should
>> be on top IIRC, but check the TSRM.
>>
>> 11- Torque down the exhaust manifold nuts (use new ones if
>> the old ones look bad), working outside to inside bolts.
>> Set torque to 29 ft-lb.
>>
>> 10- Reinstall everthing else that was removed, with new
>> gaskets.
>>
>> My experience has been that after, say 1000 miles,
>> the nuts on rear most will start to loosen up again, but
>> one retorque (on cold engine) should keep them tight for
>> good.
>>
>> Hope this helps, and again, use the TSRM for proper torque
>> specs and procedures.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /Khalid, 90T
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: LN <studioartist at yahoo.com>
>> To: Khalid Almufti <kalmufti at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:45:41 PM
>> Subject: RE:How do I locate an exhaust leak?
>>
>> Hi Khalid,
>>
>> Thank you so much you are so right!!!!!!!!! I have
>> been having this problem for 5 years after the rebuild
>> and with your advice you were dead on it's the last
>> bolt near the end of the head which was shooting air
>> backward toward the firewall. I can't see the cause
>> but the bolt are whitened from heat. How do I fix
>> this with helicoil? Is there a write up you can
>> direct me to? Can I do it with the manifold intact???
>>
>> THANKS YOU SO MUCH.. I HOPE THIS GET TO THE LIST. I
>> find this list hard to use.
>>
>> --- Khalid Almufti <kalmufti at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi!
>> > When I ran into this problem it turned out to be
>> > a leak around the exhaust manifold gasket, which was
>> > actually due to the exhaust studs threads stripping
>> > in the cylinder head (you should have all of them
>> > heliCoiled). Even if an exhaust stud is heliCoiled
>> > into the head, the nuts need to be retorqued
>> > occasionally, but do so on a cold engine (trust me
>> > on this one). So my advise is to check the nuts on
>> > the exhaust manifold (90% it's the one on the rear
>> > most location that will be loose, start there).
>> >
>> > Good luck,
>> > Khalid, 90T
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 09:12 AM 4/16/2008, you wrote:
>> > >Message: 9
>> > >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
>> > >From: LN <studioartist at yahoo.com>
>> > >Subject: [Supras] How do I locate an exhaust leak?
>> > >To: supras at supras.com
>> > >Message-ID:
>> > <58623.3731.qm at web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> > >
>> > >I have an exhaust leaking sound in the engine
>> > >compartment area but can't tell where it is
>> > >originating from exactly. I took it to the local
>> > >Midas shop and they say it's the exhaust
>> manifold
>> > >which cracked. Afterward back at home I took the
>> 2
>> > >heat shields off the exhaust manifold but could
>> > not
>> > >see any cracks ( at least visible to the naked
>> eye)
>> > >usingboth a flashlight and mirror to see the back
>> > >side. Can someone suggest a way to locate the
>> > exact
>> > >position for a leak?? Maybe it's in the down
>> pipe?
>> > >How about using soap solution or will that
>> won't
>> > work
>> > >due to the high heat ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
>> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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>>
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJI
>> thought most/all of the Tacomas were built in Mexico?
>>
>> Chad Fernandez
>> Michigan, USA
>>
>> supraman88 wrote:
>> > Be glad you don't own a Tacoma...
>> >
>> > Or, maybe you should wish you owned one! I sold one to
>> a friend of mine
>> > 3 years ago for $8,500, and if Toyota buys it back,
>> it'll be $11,850.
>> > Not bad!
>> >
>> > And has anyone noticed, it seems to be only the models
>> made in the US
>> > that are having 'issues'?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> Supras mailing list
>> Supras at supras.com
>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>
>
>
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>
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