[Supras] Help me locate an exhaust leak
LN
studioartist at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 23 17:02:30 CDT 2008
Hi Khalid,
I undo this last bolt and it came out fine with no stripping. However the
nut was frozen onto the stud and came out as a whole assembly when I was
backing it out. Havent't had a chance to check the others studs/bolts yet
as I don't have much time to work on it just yet. I did however tried to
snug them up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn without a torque wrench but just by feel
so that gve me hope that the threads are still intact
Also I bought a Felpro gasket but afterward got to thinking if using an
aftermaket instead of OEM would it mess up in getting the true torque spec
of 29feet-lb and thus cause the stripping of the threads. I wonder if this
might be the cause of people that have had stripped thread since I found an
article that mention gasket material and construction dictates the torque
spec. Here is the link for it http://www.boltscience.com/pages/gasket.htm .
Due to shortage of time I am dreading the prospect of helicoiling and just
know that I would be running into a lot of time wasted in removing the 3
bottom bolts connecting from exhaust manifold to downpipe in order to get
access. And that doesn't include drilling/tapping/helicoiling time . Was
told by the Autozone guy that I can avoid removing these 3 bolts since the
manifold swings out 2-3" to allow me enough clearance to slip in the new
gasket assuming that I don't have any stripped threads. Do you have any
tips or tricks in removing the 3 bolts?
In any case I also purchase OEM Toyota gasket and they are built in 5 layers
: perforated steel layer-composite abestos layer (guessing on the
abestos)-smooth steel layer-composite layer again-smooth steel. All held
together by rivets. The Felpro is built in 3 layers , a composite layer
sandwiched by a layer of perforated steel on each side.
I couldn't find any RTV that can handle the high heat since I am a bit
concern that perhaps the leakage is due to warpage in the back area either
from the head or the manifold mating side and was hoping that the RTV
sealant might address these minor imperfections and allow for a quick cheap
fix till I have time to do a proper job. I am awared of warpage allowance
of .10mm max on the head side and .75mm on the manifold side and the proper
way is to machine them down. But I also wonder how often does warpage
happens. The flow of the leak just like a knife cutting action which lead
me to believe that it's warpage.
What gasket manufacture did you use and did you use any RTV? Would love to
hear from others also on this question.
I know I am asking lots of questions but I truly appreciate your help and
everyone else on the list that have responded. I also know now that this is
the cause of lean reading on my emission report.
--- On Sun, 4/20/08, supras-request at supras.com <supras-request at supras.com> wrote:
> From: supras-request at supras.com <supras-request at supras.com>
> Subject: Supras Digest, Vol 52, Issue 26
> To: supras at supras.com
> Date: Sunday, April 20, 2008, 10:00 AM
> Send Supras mailing list submissions to
> supras at supras.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> than "Re: Contents of Supras
> digest..."Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Lapping plate for rent? (Sevan D)
> 2. Toyota Quality (Bob)
> 3. Re: Help me pass the smog test please (supraman88)
> 4. 88 NA AT Speedo Cable (supraman88)
> 5. Re: Toyota Quality (supraman88)
> 6. Re: Help me pass the smog test please
> (Bigmacz28 at aol.com)
> 7. Re: 88 NA AT Speedo Cable (Bigmacz28 at aol.com)
> 8. Re: How do I locate an exhaust leak? (Khalid Almufti)
> 9. Re: Toyota Quality (Chad Fernandez)As Mohler said,
> these days Cometic has made the use of MLS gaskets pretty
> common, and if you ask the machine shop if they have
> experience with surfacing blocks or heads for use with them
> you should be ok.I just wanted the list to know... Toyota
> quality isn't what it used to be.
>
> After 19 years one of the original headlights failed!
>
> I can't believe with all of our technology we can't
> make a simple headlight
> last 20 years yet. If their quality keeps falling I might
> have to start
> looking at a Lexus
>
> How much you want to bet the other one will fail within the
> next 6 months?
>
> BobWhen was the last time you replaced plugs and wires?
> Mine was failing
> miserably until I did a 'tune up'.
>
> Set the timing according to spec, and do the plugs and
> wires. I got NGK
> wires (what the factory uses) for $56 on eBay a year ago,
> and
> Nippon-Denso plugs. Everything came into spec, but NOx is
> high.
> Retarding the timing would help that.
>
> The reason the timing was showing at 8 degrees is because
> of the vacuum
> advance controlled by the ECU. If you short terminals T and
> E1 in the
> diagnostic terminal under the hood and check it, it should
> be 10
> degrees. Remove the jumper and it will go to 8.
>
> >
> > I failed my smog test and need help. Any advices
> > would be appreciated.
> >
> > Here are my test results for California ASM Test:
> >
> > Car is an 86.5 Supra Non-Turbo 3.0 Liter
> >
> >
> > %CO %O2 HC IN PPM........... CO IN %............. NO
> > IN PPM...........
> > TEST RPM MEAS MEAS MAX AVE MEAS MAX AVE MEAS MAX AVE
> > MEAS RESULTS
> > 15mph 1646 12.0 3.2 130 41 189 0.81 0.13 0.51 1115 399
> > 1505 Fail
> > 25mph 1786 12.6 2.7 105 29 105 0.61 0.11 0.25 945 332
> > 479 Pass
> > Ignition Timing 8 BTDC on the smog report.
> > MAX=Maximum allowable value
> > AVE=Average emissions for passing vehicles
> > MEAS=Amount measured
> >
> >
> >
> > When I asked the smog technician if my timing is off
> > he said that I shouldn't expect 10 BTDC since it
> > changes according to
> > engine to different conditions. Is he right? I
> > thought it's supposed to be 10 BTDC at idle
> according
> > to the factory specification in the TSRM manual. Who
> > is right? I looked thru all my older previous smog
> > reports and I saw that it jumped all around from 9
> > BTDC, 13 BTDC, and 10 BTDC but they all passed the
> > smog tests till now. So does the timing has any major
> > effect?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Liam N
> >I read the dissertation at SOGI on how to remove the
> short section from
> the transmission with vise grips. I had already tried this
> myself before
> reading the tip. No Go, the thing won't come off, and
> when I get the
> Vise Grips on there, I can't even turn it, it's so
> tight. Anybody have
> any suggestions (other than taking it to a shop)?
>
> I'm hoping once I get the thing off I can somehow
> repair the broken
> piece, using JB Weld or something similar.
>
> Any suggestions (except for the shop and unassing $80 for
> new part) are
> welcome!Be glad you don't own a Tacoma...
>
> Or, maybe you should wish you owned one! I sold one to a
> friend of mine
> 3 years ago for $8,500, and if Toyota buys it back,
> it'll be $11,850.
> Not bad!
>
> And has anyone noticed, it seems to be only the models made
> in the US
> that are having 'issues'?
>
>
> Bob wrote:
> > I just wanted the list to know... Toyota quality
> isn't what it used to be.
> >
> > After 19 years one of the original headlights failed!
> >
> > I can't believe with all of our technology we
> can't make a simple headlight
> > last 20 years yet. If their quality keeps falling I
> might have to start
> > looking at a Lexus
> >
> > How much you want to bet the other one will fail
> within the next 6 months?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Supras mailing list
> > Supras at supras.com
> > http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> >
> >Also make sure you have a new air filter!
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/20/2008 7:32:10 A.M. US Mountain
> Standard Time,
> supraman88 at verizon.net writes:
>
> When was the last time you replaced plugs and wires? Mine
> was failing
> miserably until I did a 'tune up'.
>
> Set the timing according to spec, and do the plugs and
> wires. I got NGK
> wires (what the factory uses) for $56 on eBay a year ago,
> and
> Nippon-Denso plugs. Everything came into spec, but NOx is
> high.
> Retarding the timing would help that.
>
> The reason the timing was showing at 8 degrees is because
> of the vacuum
> advance controlled by the ECU. If you short terminals T
> and E1 in the
> diagnostic terminal under the hood and check it, it should
> be 10
> degrees. Remove the jumper and it will go to 8.
>
> >
> > I failed my smog test and need help. Any advices
> > would be appreciated.
> >
> > Here are my test results for California ASM Test:
> >
> > Car is an 86.5 Supra Non-Turbo 3.0 Liter
> >
> >
> > %CO %O2 HC IN PPM........... CO IN
> %............. NO
> > IN PPM...........
> > TEST RPM MEAS MEAS MAX AVE MEAS
> MAX AVE MEAS
> MAX AVE
> > MEAS RESULTS
> > 15mph 1646 12.0 3.2 130 41 189
> 0.81 0.13 0.51
> 1115 399
> > 1505 Fail
> > 25mph 1786 12.6 2.7 105 29 105
> 0.61 0.11 0.25
> 945 332
> > 479 Pass
> > Ignition Timing 8 BTDC on the smog report.
> > MAX=Maximum allowable value
> > AVE=Average emissions for passing vehicles
> > MEAS=Amount measured
> >
> >
> >
> > When I asked the smog technician if my timing is off
> > he said that I shouldn't expect 10 BTDC since it
> > changes according to
> > engine to different conditions. Is he right? I
> > thought it's supposed to be 10 BTDC at idle
> according
> > to the factory specification in the TSRM manual. Who
> > is right? I looked thru all my older previous smog
> > reports and I saw that it jumped all around from 9
> > BTDC, 13 BTDC, and 10 BTDC but they all passed the
> > smog tests till now. So does the timing has any
> major
> > effect?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Liam N
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Supras mailing list
> Supras at supras.com
> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site
> for U.S. used car
> listings at AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)Heat
> it up with a hair dryer and use channel locks. They are
> smaller and
> worked for me. I might have a used short cable. Will look
> around.
>
> Joe Mac
> Tucson,Az
>
>
> In a message dated 4/20/2008 7:48:58 A.M. US Mountain
> Standard Time,
> supraman88 at verizon.net writes:
>
> I read the dissertation at SOGI on how to remove the short
> section from
> the transmission with vise grips. I had already tried this
> myself before
> reading the tip. No Go, the thing won't come off, and
> when I get the
> Vise Grips on there, I can't even turn it, it's so
> tight. Anybody have
> any suggestions (other than taking it to a shop)?
>
> I'm hoping once I get the thing off I can somehow
> repair the broken
> piece, using JB Weld or something similar.
>
> Any suggestions (except for the shop and unassing $80 for
> new part) are
> welcome!
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Supras mailing list
> Supras at supras.com
> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site
> for U.S. used car
> listings at AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)Hi!
> I am really glad that you were able to locate the
> exhaust leak.
>
> In my opinion, the first thing to try is simply to retorque
> the manifold, starting with the rear most nut.
> Do this on a cold engine, and torque according to spec.,
> i.e 29 ft-lb.
> If you can't torque the nuts because the studs are
> spinning in the cylinder head, then you'll have to
> rethread and helicoil the cylinder head for the manifold
> studs. I am not aware of any write ups on this procedure,
> but it's relatively easy, especially if you've
> drilled and tapped threads before. Unfortunately, you have
> to remove the exhaust manifold in order to do this job. So,
> here is the procedure that I have done on my car:
>
> 1- Remove the exhasut manifold. I removed turbo charger
> first, though I think you can remove the manifold without
> removing the charger. Of course, turbo charger coolant and
> oil lines have to be disconnected from the engine.
> 2- Remove the studs where the threads in the cylinder head
> have stripped. They usually will just pull right off, but
> if you decide to do all the studs, as recommended by the
> majority of the group, you can remove the remaining studs
> as well.
>
> 3- Get a close quarter right angle drill. I used this
> drill
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Milwaukee%200370-20%203%2F8%20in.%20Close%20Quarter%20Drill:2003368642
>
> I do not recommed a right angle adapter as I have tried
> this option and it did not work well for me. You really
> don't want to drill a larger diameter than what is
> needed for the helicoil!
>
> 4- Get a thread repair Helicoil kit. Here is the part
> number for the Emhart kit I used: 5543-10. This is a
> complete thread repair kit, minus the drill bit, which is
> 13/32 inch drill bit. But I guess if you pick up any other
> brand M10x1.25 thread repair kit will work. Follow the
> instructions of the thread repair kit.
>
> 5- The first step will be to drill out the stripped
> threads. Be careful here, don't drill too deep into
> the cylinder head, and since it's aluminum, you can
> easily do that. Check the depth, mark the drill bet with
> the length of the threads of the studs, and you can also
> place tape on the mark to stop drilling when you reach the
> correct depth. This is why I like the drill I mentioned
> earlier, it gives proper control needed for this job.
>
> 6- Follow the insturction on the rethread kit to tap the
> threads for the helicoil. I used a ratchet, especially for
> the tight spot near the firewall.
>
> 7- Now use the tool provided with the kit to thread on the
> helicoil. Work carefully and slowly on this one.
>
> 9- Now you should be able to hand tighten the studs (use
> new one if the old ones look bad) on the cylinder head.
> Some people use high temp loctite, I didn't and
> don't have recommendation against or for it.
>
> 10- Install a new exhaust manifold gasket. Note, it
> should only go on one way, there is a notch, which should
> be on top IIRC, but check the TSRM.
>
> 11- Torque down the exhaust manifold nuts (use new ones if
> the old ones look bad), working outside to inside bolts.
> Set torque to 29 ft-lb.
>
> 10- Reinstall everthing else that was removed, with new
> gaskets.
>
> My experience has been that after, say 1000 miles,
> the nuts on rear most will start to loosen up again, but
> one retorque (on cold engine) should keep them tight for
> good.
>
> Hope this helps, and again, use the TSRM for proper torque
> specs and procedures.
>
> Regards,
> /Khalid, 90T
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: LN <studioartist at yahoo.com>
> To: Khalid Almufti <kalmufti at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:45:41 PM
> Subject: RE:How do I locate an exhaust leak?
>
> Hi Khalid,
>
> Thank you so much you are so right!!!!!!!!! I have
> been having this problem for 5 years after the rebuild
> and with your advice you were dead on it's the last
> bolt near the end of the head which was shooting air
> backward toward the firewall. I can't see the cause
> but the bolt are whitened from heat. How do I fix
> this with helicoil? Is there a write up you can
> direct me to? Can I do it with the manifold intact???
>
> THANKS YOU SO MUCH.. I HOPE THIS GET TO THE LIST. I
> find this list hard to use.
>
> --- Khalid Almufti <kalmufti at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> > When I ran into this problem it turned out to be
> > a leak around the exhaust manifold gasket, which was
> > actually due to the exhaust studs threads stripping
> > in the cylinder head (you should have all of them
> > heliCoiled). Even if an exhaust stud is heliCoiled
> > into the head, the nuts need to be retorqued
> > occasionally, but do so on a cold engine (trust me
> > on this one). So my advise is to check the nuts on
> > the exhaust manifold (90% it's the one on the rear
> > most location that will be loose, start there).
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Khalid, 90T
> >
> >
> >
> > At 09:12 AM 4/16/2008, you wrote:
> > >Message: 9
> > >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > >From: LN <studioartist at yahoo.com>
> > >Subject: [Supras] How do I locate an exhaust leak?
> > >To: supras at supras.com
> > >Message-ID:
> > <58623.3731.qm at web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > >I have an exhaust leaking sound in the engine
> > >compartment area but can't tell where it is
> > >originating from exactly. I took it to the local
> > >Midas shop and they say it's the exhaust
> manifold
> > >which cracked. Afterward back at home I took the
> 2
> > >heat shields off the exhaust manifold but could
> > not
> > >see any cracks ( at least visible to the naked
> eye)
> > >usingboth a flashlight and mirror to see the back
> > >side. Can someone suggest a way to locate the
> > exact
> > >position for a leak?? Maybe it's in the down
> pipe?
> > >How about using soap solution or will that
> won't
> > work
> > >due to the high heat ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJI
> thought most/all of the Tacomas were built in Mexico?
>
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
>
> supraman88 wrote:
> > Be glad you don't own a Tacoma...
> >
> > Or, maybe you should wish you owned one! I sold one to
> a friend of mine
> > 3 years ago for $8,500, and if Toyota buys it back,
> it'll be $11,850.
> > Not bad!
> >
> > And has anyone noticed, it seems to be only the models
> made in the US
> > that are having 'issues'?
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> Supras mailing list
> Supras at supras.com
> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
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