[Supras] Debit Card got Highjacked after using DISCOUNTACPARTS.COM

cthommes at adelphia.net cthommes at adelphia.net
Mon Apr 14 17:42:17 CDT 2008 

LOL!  Never heard of ATM card skimming, eh?  That's only been around for decades.  Thanks for the book recommendation, in any event.

There are precautions that are common sense and merited.  But there are also precautions that are excessive, eliminate handy conveniences, and yet result in negligible (zero even) risk reduction.  Demanding an ATM only card and refusing a debit card on the grounds that you're more likely to be defrauded with a debit card definitely falls in the latter.

-Craig

---- Hacker J <jonbhacker at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Nothing like kicking Craig's bee hive.... :)
> 
> It's from Consumer reports and while the fraud may not ultimately cost you anything, its still a
> damn unpleasant journey and happens by most estimates, twice as frequently as for credit card
> transactions. 
> 
> There's a good book you should read Craig, it's called "Fooled by Randomness" by Nicholas Taleb.
> 
> Jon
> 
> PA My atm card goes into only one slot that is owned by the bank that issued it. No need to worry
> about Discountparts temp workers stealing my info.
> 
> 
> --- cthommes at adelphia.net wrote:
> 
> > That's an interesting article you've copied and pasted to support needless paranoia.  Looks like
> > it was provided by a card issuer or merchant processor to increase sales...
> > 
> > My paypal account just got hacked, it cost me nothing.  I've lost a debit card, it cost me
> > nothing.  I've lost a checkbook, it cost me nothing.  I speak from 10 years employment
> > experience in transaction processing / computer operations in three different consumer banks,
> > and have never once seen a consumer liable for any amount of truely unauthorized transactions.
> > 
> > Besides, that ATM non-debit card you cherish?  It's an identical "Access Device" as defined by
> > Reg E as a debit card.  So perhaps you shouldn't get that either?  Or checks?  Heck, maybe we
> > can all just keep our cash under the matress to be safe...
> > 
> > -Craig
> > 
> > ---- Hacker J <jonbhacker at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > > Unequal fraud protection
> > > 
> > > Under federal law, your liability for fraudulent charges on a debit card can be greater than
> > it is
> > > for a credit card. With a credit card, you're only responsible for up to $50 in unauthorized
> > > purchases. But with a debit card, you can lose up to $500 if you don't report the theft or
> > loss of
> > > your card or PIN within two business days of discovering the problem. And if you fail to
> > report
> > > the unauthorized charges within 60 days of the date of the statement that lists them, you
> > could be
> > > held liable for any unauthorized withdrawals after that date. Those include the full value of
> > > credit lines and funds in savings linked to your checking account for overdraft protection.
> > > 
> > > In practice, Visa and MasterCard both have "zero liability" policies that go beyond the
> > federal
> > > law by exempting debit cardholders from liability in most cases when a bank investigation
> > confirms
> > > a transaction is fraudulent. But there are loopholes in those policies.
> > > 
> > > Even if consumers were granted liability protection that is identical to that for credit
> > cards,
> > > the headaches of setting the record straight are much greater with fraud on a debit card, says
> > Ed
> > > Mierzwinski, consumer program director at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. "Unlike a
> > > credit card, payment for a fraudulent transaction has already come out of your bank account,
> > so
> > > you're fighting over your money, not theirs, and you could be bouncing other checks while
> > you're
> > > waiting for it to be resolved," he says.
> > > 
> > > What's more, while there have been a few well-publicized security breaches involving the theft
> > of
> > > debit-card PIN numbers by hackers breaking into store computer databases, retailers generally
> > > report that the incidence of fraud is higher when consumers sign for debit purchases rather
> > than
> > > using a PIN. "Signature-based transactions are definitely less secure, so it's really
> > outrageous
> > > that banks are steering customers to use signatures rather than PINs simply because it
> > generates
> > > more fee income," says Avivah Litan. One major retailer confided to her that fraud on
> > > signature-based debit purchases at his company's stores is 15 times higher than for
> > transactions
> > > authorized by a PIN.
> > > 
> > > Ironically, although your odds of becoming a fraud victim are lower when you use a PIN, your
> > > protection from liability if fraud does occur is greater with a signature debit card because
> > card
> > > issuers may exclude some types of PIN transactions from their zero-liability policies. Litan
> > > advises calling your card issuer to find out what your liability is for unauthorized signature
> > vs.
> > > PIN debit purchases. She says that since banks encourage the use of signature debit, you're
> > likely
> > > to have better protection when you sign.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- cthommes at adelphia.net wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Not at all true.  Check out FDIC Regulation E regarding electronic funds transfers.  You'll
> > > > learn that debit cards are really no less safe than credit cards.  And it's only your money
> > that
> > > > is gone until the bank, as required by aforementioned regulation, must provisionally credit
> > your
> > > > account for disputed charges.  Then it's their money.
> > > > 
> > > > Generally, though, credit cards do offer better voluntary buyer protection, which deals not
> > with
> > > > unauthorized use, but with unsatisfactory purchases.
> > > > 
> > > > -Craig
> > > > 
> > > > ---- Hacker J <jonbhacker at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- supras-request at supras.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Send Supras mailing list submissions to
> > > > > > 	supras at supras.com
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > > > 	http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > > I agree.  My bank has repeatedly tried to issue me debit/atm cards.  I always chop em up
> > and
> > > > ask
> > > > > them to send me just a plain atm card.  The federal protections ($50 liability etc) only
> > apply
> > > > to
> > > > > credit cards. The main issue with debit card fraud is that it is your money that is gone. 
> > > > With a
> > > > > credit card it is the bank's money, which is more of an incentive for them to get it back.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Jon
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Use a credit card for online purchases, never use a debit card.  Credit cards
> > > > > > offer more protection.  Plus many of them have a service that creates a temporary
> > > > > > number with a specified limit and expiration date. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Otherwise, good luck!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:30:59AM -0400, D P wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I used my debit card to purchase a new condenser for my Chevy Venture on Thursday
> > April 3
> > > > from
> > > > > > DISCOUNTACPARTS.COM. Then on April 10, my entire checking account was wiped out. They
> > got
> > > > almost
> > > > > > $1000.00 from the account and it was left in negative from some more purchase
> > transactions
> > > > in
> > > > > > pending.The reason I'm 99.9 percent sure that it was discountacparts.com is because one
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > merchant (Banana Republic) called me ON MY CELL PHONE to verify the order. I had entered
> > my
> > > > cell
> > > > > > phone number on the discountacparts.com order.I'm so glad Banana Republic called me to
> > > > verify. I
> > > > > > asked the lady what prompted them to call and she said it's because the bill to and ship
> > to
> > > > > > addresses were different.So, now I'm working with my bank trying to get my money
> > backStupid
> > > > ass
> > > > > > Regions bank has no live person to speak to after hours so had to wait until the next
> > day to
> > > > > > contact them. I did call the sherriff right away though.
> > > > > > > Darren92T 5-Speed White PackageCanadian Model in Florida
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
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> > > > > 
> > > > > 
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> 
> 
> 
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