[Supras] Dawes and boost richness

[Jim Jobe]

But do you know that it's safe throughout the entire rpm band?
Sounds like you have one rough sample per pull.  That might be
enough for emissions testing but not ok for tuning.

Innovate is limited to the finicky bosch sensor.  I
really wish they would add in the ability to use the
NTK sensor.

I've spent considerable time dyno and street tuning for
entire fuel maps, and nothing compares to having the wideband
as close to the engine as you can get it.  Even down by the
cat will add a few hundred rpm delay that must be accounted
for.

Honestly however, a lexus afm w/550's and approx 35-37psi
with vacuum, 40-43psi base fuel pressure should be perfectly
fine.  Never hurts to check tho.  :-)  And...too rich can be
bad too.

On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 12:53:03AM -0500, berniek at technicaldevelop.com wrote:
> Joe:
> 
>     You have come up with a very good analogy.  Yes, a system to allow 
> tuning would be better, as the car is not making maximum power under 
> boost due to excessive richness.  I've confirmed it to be 9:1 to 9.5:1 
> with two separate instruments (not counting the Dawes) so at least for 
> the moment I know it is safe if not as fast as it could be.  Conversely 
> I'm really not in a position where I can spend the time now to do more 
> than has presently been done.  11:1 is generally deemed safe for use 
> with stock pistons at 15-17 PSI boost, but I would either need to use a 
> wideband and not leave it in place for too long, or go through the 
> hassle with the thermal conductivity meters again.  I know that there 
> are many in the group running widebands all of the time at or near the 
> turbo elbow, but that location does not jive with what Innovate says.  
> If the wideband sensor could be treated like a stock sensor, I'd already 
> have one.  Having about $10K in the car now, the additional $250 
> represents only an additional 2.5%.  Cost is not any issue at this 
> point.  Time is, so for the moment the car will stay as-is. 
> 
> 
>        Bernie
> 
> 
> joe at wilmcd.com wrote:
> > By adding the Lexus AFM you've basically added a non-adjustable S-AFC.
> > Maybe a bit of a simplification, but it's essentially the same. They are
> > both lying to the ECU about the amount of air. You happen to be offsetting
> > that because you have larger injectors. That makes it seem more "pure" of
> > a mod but it's the same thing. In order to get the best (by that I mean
> > safest and most reliable) power from the car you need to be able to tune
> > it at different points. I hope that helps a bit... I don't know if you
> > have a choice but to get into the piggy-back or standalone world. :-\
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >   
> >> Joe:
> >>
> >>     The Dawes is a relatively simple A/F ratio indicator that works from
> >> the last fractional volt of output from the stock O2 sensor.  I know
> >> others using them and they have been reliable.  Before installing it I
> >> did a "propane torch" test of the sensor, described elsewhere (I can get
> >> the link for you) and corroborated it with bench tests with a precision
> >> voltmeter.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but the Dawes does the
> >> following using a National Semiconductor analog voltage to LED driver
> >> chip:
> >>
> >> .95 to 1V:  Excessively rich, about 9:1.  Illuminates blue LED.
> >>
> >> .90 to .95V:  Just about right, about 11:1.  Illuminates green LED.
> >>
> >> .87 to .90V:  Illuminates amber LED, leaner than 11:1.
> >>
> >> Less than .85V:  Illuminates red LED, too lean for safe operation under
> >> boost.
> >>
> >>     Dawes is now known as 3 bar racing.  Although I work in defense
> >> electronics development, I have somewhat of an aversion to adding
> >> additional electronics to the car unless it is really needed.  Right
> >> now, the car behaves like stock from a fuel mixture and other
> >> operational standpoint, but with about twice the push in the back as
> >> compared with stock (above 3000 RPM).  About the only additional
> >> electronics I will add will be a 0-30 PSIG pressure sensor, with an
> >> attenuation resistor network to make the stock gauge read about 20 PSIG
> >> full scale (not interested in the meaningless vacuum reading of the
> >> stock gauge).  It is a Sensym item bought from Digi-Key for about $30.
> >> Needs a perfboard and box to replace the stock sensor (now with
> >> attenuated output to read up to about 14 PSI on the stock gauge before
> >> pinning it).  The stock sensor will saturate at about 14 PSI.
> >>
> >>     Right now the car feels as if it will beat almost anything on the
> >> road, at least up to the end of second gear (breaks the 275/40/17
> >> Bridgestones loose at about 4K-5K RPM in second).  Mods are as follows:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 550cc Greddy (ND) injectors.
> >> Walbro pump.
> >> Lexus AFM, stock screw about 1/2 way in.
> >> Free flow dry AEM air filter.
> >> 3" exhaust overall and Lipp elbow, with one high flow Random Technology
> >> cat.
> >> 57 trim CT26 turbo.
> >> Radiused inlets on 3000 pipe and turbo discharge 45 degree elbow casting
> >> (hard pipes to come).
> >> Dawes A/F meter (reads very rich end of stock O2 sensor, and presently
> >> indicates about 9:1 AFR at full boost.
> >> Dawes boost controller set to 15 PSI, sometimes spikes to 17 PSI for
> >> less than one second.
> >> Valve bowls cleaned up with die grinder.
> >> Valve springs shimmed to about .025" less than stock height.
> >> Cometic 2.2 mm HG (block was decked twice due to rollover on floor).
> >> ARP studs torqued to 85 lb-ft (80% of yield).
> >> Modified stock FPR (works fine) set to about 38 PSI (measured with no
> >> vacuum on spring side).
> >> '89 hard captive urethane engine mounts.
> >> Moved oil pickup 3-1/2" further back in pan.
> >> Lightly cleaned up stock exhaust manifold, and Helicoiled head tappings
> >> for exhaust studs.
> >> I can feel that the stock cams make it run out of power at about 5700
> >> RPM.  But...  They will remain in place until NJ removes the inspection
> >> station dynos, now that most cars are OBD2.
> >>
> >>
> >>         Bernie.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
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