[Supras] Strut time!

[Christian, Skip]

Jeff,
 
    Alfa convertibles (105 & 115) are frustrating.  I've owned some that
are as tight as coupes/sedans and one that felt like it was assembled
with rubber bands.  By tight, I mean "cowl shake".  All were hand made
and I guess it depended whether the workers got their raise :-)  Never
tried to make a loose one handle.
    My Supra springs are linear.  At the time they wee the only ones I
could find that had the right amount of lowering.  Surprisingly, the
ride wasn't effected much.  Never changed bars because I couldn't find
hollow ones and read that, when set on max, the adjustable rears would
rip the mounting bracket off the control arm......  Car was (maybe will
be again:-) a daily driver/commuter car.
 
Skip

________________________________

From: Jeff Mohler [mailto:speedtoys.racing at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 13:33
To: Christian, Skip
Cc: supras at supras.com
Subject: Re: [Supras] Strut time!


No problems..and the Alfas are different, its a narrower car, less
weight/momentum..and in fact, they enjoy a little loseness.  :)

So far..he hasnt told us what springs he is using..IMHO, OEMs are damned
fine, they just were never paired with good struts or swaybars. 

OEM springs are stiffer than most -any- other linear spring thats not a
full race one.

Progressive springs need to compress about 1/2 way before they meet OEM
stiffness...aint that odd.


On 3/16/07, Christian, Skip <wellner.christian at navy.mil> wrote: 

	Jeff,
	
	        You're 100% correct.  By "failure", I meant when the
shock
	damping degrades to the point where the car begins to bob.
Limit
	handling will be effected sooner.  OEM TEMS shocks were about
done 
	around 20K miles (if I remember correctly).
	        Have not done only front shocks on a Supra so I defer to
you.
	On other cars (Alfas), I have not experienced a severe increase
in
	oversteer (but they were not prone to oversteer or "tank
slapping"). 
	        Just trying to tell him that if he picks the correct,
more
	expensive, shock, he might end up with a shock that lasts 2 to 3
times
	longer.  Should have asked how he plans to use/drive the
car.......
	        Appreciate the correction. 
	
	Thanks, Skip
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Jeff Mohler [mailto:speedtoys.racing at gmail.com]
	Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:51
	To: Christian, Skip 
	Cc: supras at supras.com
	Subject: Re: [Supras] Strut time!
	
	Skip:
	
	By 'how long do they last' you seem to mean until they totally
fail.
	
	Struts..all of them, lose damping from mile #1, and few work 1/2
as good 
	at mile 30,000 in the normal retail market.
	
	Thats what separates good from normal..and why good costs 2-3x
as much.
	
	And nonono..dont leave crap struts in the rear with good up
front.."less
	rear bar" isnt the outcome, the outcome is a severe lack of
damping on 
	rebound, and a huge tendency to oversteer from the instability.
Not to
	say that rears should be stiff..that can lead to oversteer as
well, but
	that rebound damping is critical.  Less rear bar is allowing the
car to 
	settle more weight in the back end in a turn..instead of adding
more
	overall spring rate and now allowing the rear to lean as much.
	
	A lack of proper damping is a tank slapper waiting to happen on
a stiff
	front end.
	
	
	
	
	On 3/16/07, Christian, Skip < wellner.christian at navy.mil
	<mailto:wellner.christian at navy.mil > > wrote:
	
	        Supraman,
	                Does your car have TEMS ?  OEM TEMS shocks are
KYBs and
	they are
	        horrible.  Very linear and not enough, IMHO, damping.
Don't
	know about 
	        non-OEM KYBs for Supras, but I've found aftermarket KYBs
(gas
	only) to
	        be acceptable (you get what you pay for) in the other
cars I've
	        installed them in.
	                I installed Tokico TEMS shocks with H&R (?)
(sorry its 
	been a
	        while) lowering springs (with an extra half coil cut off
the
	rears to
	        level the car) and found them to be great for street
use.  Also,
	they've
	        lasted about twice as long as the OEM shocks. 
	                Something to consider, if you plan to keep the
car & put
	on lots
	        of mileage, ask how long specific shocks last.  The TEMS
Tokicos
	appear
	        like they will make 100K miles easily (now watch one of
them 
	blow the
	        next time I drive the car :-).  If you pay $100.00 per
shock and
	they
	        last 100K miles, that's way better than paying $50.00
for shocks
	that
	        last 50K miles.  Of course, that is unless you thing is
changing 
	        struts.........  Not my thing (not counting BHGs, struts
are my
	most
	        hated job after exhausts).
	                Make a list of what the car needs and come up
with a
	budget.
	        Maybe changing out only the fronts now and doing the
rears in 
	six
	        months.  This will make the car drive a little like it
has less
	rear
	        bar.
	
	        Enjoy, Skip
	        '86 MA70 Dead
	        '88 MA70 Real Dead
	        (shocks are good :-) 
	
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