[Supras] Lightweight flywheel+balancing+lathes

Thu Feb 1 16:26:01 CST 2007

PS:  If you can spring for the cost, there are some new imported lathes
which are good quality.  But you will need to buy the tooling and
accessories separately.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-BIRMINGHAM-13-X-40-GAP-BED-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ130072881652QQihZ003QQcategoryZ97230QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

        Bernie K

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
To: "Brandon" <fstrnldr at tconl.com>
Cc: <supras at supras.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Supras] Lightweight flywheel+balancing

> Brandon and list:
>
>     A lathe is the most basic of all machine tools.  South Bend and Logan
> tend to be the least expensive on the used market.  They also are the
> simplest, with stepped belt pullies, all in the open, somewhat antique
> looking.  But they are fine to get the job done, and are not expensive.
> Check the following link to a completed ebay sale:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/METAL-LATHE_W0QQitemZ180074249751QQihZ008QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> You can generally find one with a 3 jaw self centering chuck, maybe a 4
jaw
> independent chuck, tailstock center and maybe a steady rest for under $600
> on ebay.  While not the nicest looking, a 9" South Bend in reasonable
> condition will get the job done for most needs.  If needed you can get new
> chucks from MSC or Enco for maybe $150.  Get end mills there too, maybe $4
> for the imports.  The imported ones are fine, and are cheap.  Of course
you
> cannot refinish brake rotors on a 9" or 10" lathe because of the diameter,
> but you can make small parts of most types with the addition of a milling
> attachment.  That is a small vise with X-Y leadscrews which bolts to the
> carriage of the lathe.  You put the end mill in the lathe chuck or collet.
> It does not have the capability of a Bridgeport, but I used one for about
5
> years when I got my first lathe in 1970.  Bought the Bridgeport 6 years
> later for $600 (it needed work, but the price was right).  Over the years,
> it becomes a matter of keeping your eyes open for tooling, like collet
sets,
> boring bars, and the like.  Flea markets, machine shops going out of
> business, etc., are good sources.
>
> You can also use the lathe as a horizontal drill press of sorts, up to the
> size it will accommodate.
>
> Over the years you will find yourself trading up.  The lathe I have here
now
> is a later 10" South Bend, with a more modern looking "underneath" drive
for
> the motor, and a long bed, important if you want to use the lathe as a
pair
> of bench centers for checking runout of a camshaft or crankshaft (at the
> main journals) with a dial indicator (also cheap at Enco, maybe $12 to $30
> with a magnetic base, made in China, but their stuff is much better than
it
> was a couple of years ago).  It is one model before the one shown in the
> following link, but has a 48" long bed rather than a 32" bed:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUTHBEND-10-x-32-Engine-Lathe_W0QQitemZ140074118182QQihZ004QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Just about all lathes have "change gears" as a minimum so you can cut
> threads using the leadscrew (visible in the photo).  The better ones have
a
> "quick change gearbox" with levers you set to set the thread pitch you
cut.
> So if you don't have a die or tap for a specific size thread, you can
lathe
> cut it (with some patience, but it will get the job done).
>
> These are tools you will have all of your life.  You will find yourself
> using them for all sorts of things aside from cars.  For example, recently
I
> had to modify half of a a copper tubing union to be a 1/2" male pipe to
1/2"
> (actually 5/8" OD) copper sweat fitting.  Feel free to ask any further
> questions.  See if your local library has a paperbound book written by
South
> Bend titled "How to Run a Lathe".  Copies show up on ebay also.  It is
> invaluable.
>
>         BernieK
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon" <fstrnldr at tconl.com>
> To: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
> Cc: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>; <supras at supras.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Supras] Lightweight flywheel+balancing
>
>
> > Oh trust me i go through this stuff again and again w/ local machine
> shops.
> > Two days ago i picked up a 3SGTE head off an alltrac, and the surface
job
> > looked like crap on one side,   i was told oh its the heat treat thats
> baked
> > out of the head, thats the best that you can do, maybe try some silver
> paint
> > before you put gasket on.   I took it to a scond shop that cleaned it up
> and
> > when i picked it up i took it back to the first shop, and got "well i
> think
> > we had it smoother on the intake side, but the exhaust looks better for
> > sure"    no offer of money back, or anything like that.    If i really
> want
> > my machine work done right i crate the parts up and ship them out to now
> > idaho, used to be so cal.
> >
> > anyway i just had to throw out the machine shop thing because well not
> > everyone has a lathe handy.   I wish i did. though.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
> > To: "Brandon" <fstrnldr at tconl.com>
> > Cc: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>; <supras at supras.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Supras] Lightweight flywheel+balancing
> >
> >
> > > Yes, you are right on the premise that you think they will be careful.
> No
> > > doubt there are some, like the one in Oklahoma (R&L Machine?) used by
> > > Arelene Lanman.  However, I found years ago that having a lathe and
> > > Bridgeport, welding equipment saved a LOT of time waste, and doubts
> about
> > > quality of work done outside.
> > >
> > > I did find a decent shop to do some work, and had them resurface the
> head
> > > and block.  But I've also seen too many instances where shops are a
bit
> > > careless.  As an example, a shop would not refinish camshaft bearing
> caps,
> > > which I've done and have written about on this list.  They don't want
to
> > > understand that all of the wear is in the caps, and instead they talk
> > > abopu align boring the cam journals, expensive and not necessary.
> > >
> > > Getting the valve clearances right was a pain, and I can't imagine
most
> > > shops taking the time to do what we all read about with port cleanup,
> > > correct valve jobs, and the patience to set clearances in shim and
> bucket
> > > engines.  No doubt good shops exist, but here in North Central NJ they
> > > seem few and far between.
> > >
> > > Although the owner of the best shop I've found in Morris County NJ
> always
> > > has a can of beer in his hand, he seems to not let it get to his head.
> > > The flatness of the head and block I can check with a precision
> > > straightedge and feeler gauges.  Checking of flywheel and clutch I
> cannot
> > > do without making up the ring anyway.
> > >
> > > Making up the adapter ring for ball bearing to pilot hole adaptation
on
> > > the lathe takes about 20 minutes.
> > >
> > >       BernieK
> > >
> > >> or you could just drop it off at a machine shop ;-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
> > >> To: <Supras at supras.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:59 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Supras] Lightweight flywheel+balancing
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> While not as light as an aluminum flywheel, I got a chrome-moly
> flywheel
> > >>> from AutoCom.  It a lot lighter than the cast iron stocker, and much
> > >>> stronger.  The price was right, too, about half the cost of
aluminum.
> > >>> It
> > >>> still needs to be installed as part of my JDM rebuild, now over a
year
> > >>> old
> > >>> due to work considerations.
> > >>>
> > >>> When the inertia of the pressure plate is considered, the difference
> in
> > >>> total angular inertia of the flywheel and clutch combination will
not
> be
> > >>> that much different than with use of an aluminum flywheel.
> > >>>
> > >>> Just a suggestion:  If you have a lathe, make up a ring which fits
the
> > >>> center hole of the new flywheel and a small ball bearing in the
> center.
> > >>> If the ball bearing is sealed, take out the seals and grease, and
put
> > >>> clean oil in the bearing to minimize drag.  Put the ring and ball
> > >>> bearing
> > >>> in, put a shaft in the ball bearing, and stick the other end of the
> > >>> shaft
> > >>> in a vise.  The heavy side of the flywheel will roll to the bottom.
> > >>> With
> > >>> a Dremel tool, you can remove material from the heavy side to the
> point
> > >>> where you can make the flywheel stop at any point, so its balanced.
> > >>> Then
> > >>> bolt the pressure plate on, and repeat the process with it.  Punch
> mark
> > >>> them so they will go together during installation the same way.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a way to do balancing in the car as well, which I did when
> > >>> putting an aluminum flywheel in my Chevy powered Firebird.  Run the
> > >>> engine
> > >>> at the speed where the vibration is worst to get an idea of the
> > >>> vibration
> > >>> magnitude.  Then take the access cover off the bell housing, take
out
> > >>> one
> > >>> pressure plate bolt, put a couple of washers under it, and reinstall
> it.
> > >>> Run the engine again, and see if the vibration has gotten worse or
> > >>> better.
> > >>> Try this with each of the pressure plate bolts in sequence until you
> > >>> find
> > >>> the one or two at which the vibration is minimized.  Then change the
> > >>> number of washers to obtain minimum vibration.  That worked like a
> > >>> charm.
> > >>> At one time I believe I saw a GM bulletin describing the same
> procedure
> > >>> for balancing a Buick flex plate and torque convertor.
> > >>>
> > >>>            BernieK
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Supras mailing list
> > >>> Supras at supras.com
> > >>> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>