[Supras] John Lundsford stock intercooler comments

[Sean Cavanaugh]

the only thing PCV piping had going for it was that you could make some 
really good hard pipes for the car for cheap. PVC also will not suffer from 
heat soak from the exhaust manifold/turbo/top of engine areas. if you have a 
good intercooler, then you would not have to look at how well air flowing 
over the pipes will help cool the charge.

also the air flow in the engine bay is most likely negligible to nonexistent 
where the bulk of heat is created as well as fact that air being pulled in 
thru radiator will also be warm to hot. You're also talking about ambient 
engine bay air cooling the pipes in a system where it’s a massive faux pas 
to have the air filter suck in any engine air because its too warm.

-Sean

--------------------------------------------------
From: <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 2:24 PM
To: "Walker, Brian (Rich. Dist)" <Brian.Walker2 at VDOT.Virginia.gov>
Cc: <Supras at supras.com>
Subject: Re: [Supras] John Lundsford stock intercooler comments

> Brian:
>
> Use of PVC rather than metal is something I never understood either.
> Also, you are right about the black color of the stock intercooler as
> opposed to polishing the aftermarket item (the Treadstone even has
> polished tanks, so the stagnant air film adjacent to the tanks is
> thinner than for one rough cast, although we are splitting hairs here).
> You do have a good point about cooling by radiation when black, but the
> temperature difference to the surroundings is important due to the 4th
> power law of heat transfer by radiation.
>
>
> I dunno, I'm half tempted to take the easy way out and reinstall the
> stock cooler which I can have done quickly. All of the existing piping
> will match up. Besides, I don't have silicone elbows, and no one here
> stocks them except possibly one place closed for vacation. So
> temporarily at least I was going to use NAPA radiator hose, despite the
> fact that EDPM (?) may not stand up under oil for long. I could change
> them later, but my drive to get everything done to "spec" is less than
> it was.
>
>
> Comments appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> Bernie
>
> Walker, Brian (Rich. Dist) wrote:
>>
>> Bernie, a portion of this is one of those 'great debates' we've had on
>> the list for years and one of my favorites. In the below post it's
>> stated that the PVC piping will lower EGTs. I am skeptical of this
>> statement. I realize PVCis an inferior conductor, in which case it
>> would absorb less heat, however the piping does not really make
>> contact with the turbo itself, only the coupler which provides a sort
>> of insulation between the two metallic pieces (compressor outlet and
>> IC pipe) similar to the handle on a frying pan. This being the case,
>> the metallic piping is able to radiate heat to the cooler ambient air
>> flowing across it, where as the PVC pipe would transfer negligble heat
>> at any reasonable temperatue differential. I'm an advocate of a lower
>> pipe of high conductivity to take advantage of cooler undercar air and
>> then coated engine bay piping to combat heatsoak (of course there is
>> also the argument that enginebay air while moving will be cooler than
>> the charge air so more cooling could be gained by a more conductive
>> piping here too)
>>
>> As for the ability of the stock IC, I don't doubt it one bit, the
>> question is efficiency of cooling and pressure drop. The has to do
>> less work with a less restrictive IC, since heat is a by-product of
>> work it's also reduced, not to mention the quicker spooling of
>> reaching a target press. Quicker than before.
>>
>> One thing to note, black body radiation comes to play, I don't
>> understand why most big 'race' IC's and radiators are polished. Flat
>> black transfers slightly more heat than bright silver (think of
>> wearing a white shirt in summer vs. a dark one) I'm not sure at what
>> point this becomes an advantage though.
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:49:14 -0500
>> From: "berniek at technicaldevelop.com" <berniek at technicaldevelop.com>
>> Subject: [Supras] John Lundsford stock intercooler comments
>> To: "Supras at supras.com" <Supras at supras.com>
>> Message-ID: <4774B88A.50501 at technicaldevelop.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Just got my Treadstone IC today, and will install it shortly, maybe
>> tomorrow. But there have been some articles here and there which
>> indicate the stock IC to be OK up to 400 HP. Copied below from
>> Supraforums from 11/20/2003 is part of a listing by John Lundsford…..
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> From Supraforums.com, 11/20/2003:
>>
>>
>> Next: Intercooler pipes: The stock intercooler is good, flawlessly,
>> for around 400+hp ... but not everyone believes it except for the guys
>> that are doing it. There are enough flow tests and guys doing it to be
>> confident that the stock IC is good for 400+hp.
>>
>> See the following link to ONE (of plenty) guy's mk3 running the stock
>> intercooler with the intercooler pipes that we are going to talk about.
>>
>> The intercooler pipes write-up that we will be talking about was made
>> by this guy:
>> John Lunsford at 7mpower.com.
>> <_http://www.7mpower.com/john_lunsford.shtml_>
>> The following is the link to the PVC intercooler pipe write-up that
>> will cost about 40$ tops (compare that to the 400+$ kits sold) and it
>> will flow 400+HP guaranteed and not only withstand the heat but lower
>> your EGTs better than the more expensive metal kits. <--- It is the
>> same thing with the people who doubt the stock intercooler ... many
>> don't believe in it, but it works flawlessly. (*I don't want to have a
>> bunch of comments on this because I don't want the thread hijacked).
>> You need to make sure that you get the correct temperature treated PVC
>> and follow directions " to the 'T' ". <--- If you do then it will be
>> flawless and you will be very pleased.JBLMK3 PVC IC pipe write-up FOR
>> ONE STOCK INTERCOOLER.
>>
>> <_http://www.jblmk3.com/id1_custom_jblmk3_intercooler_pipes.htm_> <--- 
>> Follow this link and you will see other links within it to get parts
>> needed and a sectioned write-up.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Bernie
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Supras mailing list
> Supras at supras.com
> http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
>